Disneyland ....glory days gone bye bye??

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disneydreamer58
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Disneyland ....glory days gone bye bye??

Post by disneydreamer58 » Apr Thu 17, 2008 4:08 pm

This was an interesting article http://miceage.micechat.com/kevinyee/ky041708a.htm

I remember going to the park in the 60's & 70's until I left California in 1977. Reading the article made me sad for the yesteryears of DL. I loved riding the Skyway and the PeopleMover, I enjoyed sitting through the Carousel of Progress, and America Sings....sigh :cry:

I am hoping to visit the park in June, I can't wait to get there.

Do you think that the park has lost it's luster of the yesteryears?
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Changed...but not forgotten

Post by MintJulepRoo » Apr Thu 17, 2008 11:25 pm

I am not old enough to have gone to Disneyland during the 60's and 70's but I have seen many many documentaries that show Disneyland during this time. I went to the park twice as a child in the 90's and more recently I went in October of 06 and in February of this year. With new technology, the park has definitely changed a lot with the times. Some parts are completely unrecognizable. But every time I go I always say to myself, "Walt Disney would be proud" The old charm has been maintained and well preserved. There are so many amazing experiences to have in the park today. I can't wait for you to go. :)
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Post by tmptnr » Apr Sun 20, 2008 11:48 pm

I would have loved to see the "origional" disneyland back in the 60's and 70's. Quite a memorable experiance for those who were around for it!

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Post by disneydreamer58 » Apr Mon 21, 2008 2:51 pm

tmptnr wrote:I would have loved to see the "origional" disneyland back in the 60's and 70's. Quite a memorable experiance for those who were around for it!
Yes it was very much the best of times, in my opinion. I have such fond memories of those days. I remember as a very young child riding the Mule Rides, now that was back in the day!!

I like to go on yesterland.com to look back at those times.
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Post by faxprincess » Apr Tue 22, 2008 5:00 pm

It's really too bad we can't incorporate all the new technology and keep more of that original feeling. I don't remember my trips to Disneyland in the 70's, but I look back with such fondness of the the 80's and 90's. Bit by bit it seems to have lost some of the charm, especially when they took out the People Mover and Skyway.

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Re: Disneyland ....glory days gone bye bye??

Post by spaulo » Apr Tue 22, 2008 5:06 pm

bostoncg wrote:Do you think that the park has lost it's luster of the yesteryears?
No.

No, no, no, no, no.

Look, I am never the first one to defend ALL the changes that have greeted Disneyland in the last thirty years. But, I was born in 1979, so I didn't know the first 25+ years of Disneyland, only the more recent 25+.

Sure... the PM is gone. The Skyway is gone. The Motor Boat Cruise is gone. Heck, you're talking being there before the Fantasyland reconstruction of the early 80s, so the Chicken of the Sea pirate ship restaurant and Skull Rock are gone, too.

Things that have been added since that time:

- Star Tours
- Indiana Jones Adventure
- Splash Mountain
- Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage
- All of Toon Town, esp. Roger Rabbit's Car-Toon Spin
- Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blasters

Things that have been significantly upgraded or changed for the better:

- The entire outdoor area of Fantasyland. European village > Medieval tournament
- The Jungle Cruise
- Space Mountain

If you were going during the holidays, I'd add the holiday overlays for Haunted Mansion and It's A Small World to this list.

And of course, this is just in Disneyland... there's that entire other (underrated, in my opinion) park across the Esplanade... California Screamin', Soarin' Over California, Grizzly River Run, Tower of Terror, Monsters Inc., Muppet-Vision 3D, It's Tough To Be a Bug...

Disneyland is different. This is undeniable. There are pros and cons to these changes, and I'd even accept the argument that there have been more cons than pros...

But it's still Disneyland. It'll feel just like coming home.
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Post by danimal3114u » Apr Tue 22, 2008 7:14 pm

^
What Spaulo said. That's quite an impressive list of thing that have been added over the years, and I think there are quite a few "favorite rides" in there. Oviously nostalgia plays a big part in looking back, and things have definitely changed (CM quality might be the most). But the "Glory Days" are still there. Just watch people's faces when they're at Disneyland walking through Main Street or watching the fireworks. I really don't think you can find a Happier Place on Earth. I actually find myself enjoying the park more now than I did in the 80s and 90s :)

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Post by Skipper Dave » Apr Tue 22, 2008 8:31 pm

No. I might agree with some of those points, but as much as I would have loved to see Disneyland in 1969, Disneyland now is certainly not past its prime. Can't comment on Tokyo DisneySea, (never been there) but I have to say the original is still the best.

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Post by disneydreamer58 » Apr Wed 23, 2008 7:58 am

I am not saying that change is bad, but I think the park has lost a little of it's pixie dust from the hey days.

The last time I was there was in 2001 (I think) and only for the day. I did not see all the happy smiling faces you talk about compared to the early days of DL. People were grumpy, rude and there were quite a few rides down. CM were another thing all together, as I stood in line they did not interact with the guests they complained to each other about the over time, or this or that with their job and other CM's they were not crazy about. Back in the hey day that NEVER happened in front of the guests. My friend that I was with even said "wow, so much for the happiest place on earth". While we laughed and skipped, and had a wonderful time. The atmosphere had certainly changed. We did not go over to Calif. Adv, I had no desire to go over there. It looks like an amusement park, it did not look like "Disney" to me. And we only had the one day and I didn't want to miss anything at DL.

Back in the 70's when we went all the time, there was so much CM interaction with the guests (that made standing in long lines bareable) but back then lines were nothing like they are today.

While all the new rides I do enjoy (the ones I have been on), they do not replace the PM, the Skyway, etc. They would be nice additions. I know too that there is only so much room in Anaheim and that somethings would have to eventually go. I don't mind change per say.

It's not necessarily "the rides" but the atmosphere. I can tell you it was different back in the "old days". That is what I miss. I have to take into account to that I was younger and my parents were trying to keep the 4 of us content. Which was not hard to do.

Now with all of that said.......I am suppose to go in June this year. So I will let you know how I "feel" about it when I get back. I am basing my reaction solely on the report I read, because it transported me right back to the 60's-70's when I went regularly to the park.

So we shall see how I feel when I get done with my visit :D And maybe he and I were there on just an odd bad day for people. Because up until then all my visits I had not experienced what I did on that day.
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Post by danimal3114u » Apr Wed 23, 2008 10:50 am

I hope your trip in June goes well Bostoncg! I was also going to mention the CM issue in my post, but left it out. I think if you are going to point to one thing that has changed the park outside of the rides and attractions it would be the CM quality. I think it would be very hard to argue that the quality of CMs has not gone down in the last 10 years, let alone since the 60s-70s. I know my wife and I complained about a CM for the first time ever about a year ago it was so bad. There are definitely still a lot of CMs that will go the extra step and understand that they're on stage, but the percentage of those that see DLR as a temporary/crappy summer job (because that's how they're being compensated and trained) has risen drastically.

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Post by spaulo » Apr Wed 23, 2008 12:31 pm

bostoncg wrote:The last time I was there was in 2001 (I think) and only for the day.
You will be happy to find... I assure you of this... that the atmosphere has improved by orders of magnitude since 2001. The real bottoming-out of the park happened, imho, from 1995-ish until about 2003 or 2004. Since then it has been a steady advance.
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Post by disneydreamer58 » Apr Thu 24, 2008 8:11 am

I promise to give a trip report when I get back. Providing I still get to the park. It's always a hit or miss while I am home for family functions. But my intention is to totally go. I am hoping for the best! I can't wait!
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Post by subsonic » Apr Thu 24, 2008 11:35 am

I don't have much time, so I can't get into much depth on this subject, but this topic is something I hold very tightly to my heart. The changing of Disney and the loss of magic is VERY pronounced.

As Spaulo said, I think there have been some great additions to the park. All that he mentioned are those (except Nemo in a way, but I'd rather have that than nothing).

Basically, we're exactly touching on Kevin Yee's Declining by Degrees. It's small things that go unnoticed at the time, but they all add up. While, there have been great additions, the charm is gone by removing the theming and replacing old good attractions with either nothing or something worse. This is seen most in Tomorrowland.

The mentioning of the CMs has a very good point though. It could be that the youth of today has lost it's attention span and don't like their job working there. I doubt it's that. I think it's Disney has cut back on how they treat their CMs. They need to be paid better and more importantly, they need to feel important. This decline was happening exactly when I worked there. It used to be that management consisted of CMs that worked "up" the chain. From ride operator, to leads, to managers. Being there during the Paul Pressler era, they started bringing in managers who had MBAs and/or were managers from Department / Merchandising stores. They didn't know what it involved to work at a theme park. Thus, the customer was always right, they didn't back up the Ride Operators when there were issues. Things became inflexable, break times became more strict and after I left, everything is now completely automated by having to get to work on time. There's no leniency. If a CM isn't happy, they aren't going to want to make a guest happy.

Okay, so I spent more time on this than I thought.
So, to sum up. Disney has forgotten that it takes money to make money. They need to stop cutting corners, put the money in to build quality attractions, stick to the theme of the lands (don't replace everything with corporate entities like Pixar and Disney characters where they don't belong), pay the CMs more, support their concerns, be more flexible. Disney didn't get to where it is today by cutting corners and impressing shareholders. It got there by living on the edge and exeeding peoples expectations. Man, why am I not in charge?
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Post by danimal3114u » Apr Thu 24, 2008 1:17 pm

subsonic wrote: They need to be paid better and more importantly, they need to feel important.
I agree completely. I didn't really want to get into it with my post earlier, but the major thing is how the CMs feel about their job. I worked in the summer of 2003, and the decline that Sub talked about had hit rock bottom. Even from the very start of training, you were told that this is just a seasonal job and that the only reason you were hired is because they need more bodies to take up the guests time. During my time there, if a CM did anything above the base level needed it was because they had a respect for Disney prior to getting the job there. There was no external motivation to actually be a good CM and represent Disney well. Without those managing the seasonal CMs instilling a sense of pride, responsibility and opportunity to the lower levels that has gotten lost over the years.

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Post by disneydreamer58 » Apr Thu 24, 2008 1:31 pm

I vote for Sub to become the new CEO and President of Disney Theme Parks. Can you start your job before my trip in June :D :!:

I had a friend who was going to college in 1973 (I believe) and he was an operator on the Skyway. Back then he made great money, got Disney stock and "IF" I remember correctly some money for college. This is back when DL only hired within a 90 mile radus from Anaheim. EVERYONE wanted to work there back then. I was one, but lived further than the 90 mile radus. He loved his job and hated that after college he was going to have to go into the corporate world of finance or something. Its been so long ago I can't remember all of the details. But I do remember how much everyone seemed happier and how the park had a much different feel than it does nowadays.

I do think that now days the younger generation (my 29 yr old son included) needs that stimulation of the Xbox type. Many do not know how to just simply slow down and enjoy the "older" stuff. I am at work and can't elaborate and write as much as I would like to on all of this. But I know for one my neighbors kids (age 13 & 7) can't go anywhere without their hand held games; we go to eat, they hit the video arcade (there are small ones in a few restuarants like Red Robin). They may come to the table to get a quick drink of their soda, then run back over to the games. Eat then run back over to the games; we get back to the house and they are on their XBox. How could they appreciate the older rides at DL, they need way too much stimulation in 3D. Anyway, this isn't coming out quite like I wanted, but hopefully someone will get my drift.

Sub is so right that they need to stick with the theme of the lands and not play so much into the big corporations.

I gotta get back to work..............
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