Bye GAC Hello DAS

In relation to Disney Parks but not specific to a single resort

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Wizzard419
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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Wizzard419 » Sep Thu 19, 2013 7:19 pm

I am not sure if World of Color still runs out, I know when I went after work in December I was able to get one in the yellow (center) section about 20 mins before the show started.

But this program might be over before it even starts, I just saw a piece on the local news where parents with special needs children are having issue with it, bringing up another point that wasn't addressed. The time penalty, some kids may not be able to last the entire day so getting them in, on everything, and out before they can't handle anymore might not be an option anymore.

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Amy » Sep Thu 19, 2013 7:41 pm

I don't want to draw fire here, but there's really no guarantee that you can see everything in a day, pass or no pass. We plan multiple days because we know Mom's stamina isn't what it used to be. With the passes at least they will be able to see more than they would without the passes. I'm guessing there will be some leeway, just as there has been with the current GAC. As the new system rolls out, I'm sure there will be some tweaks happening based on how things are working.

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Wizzard419 » Sep Thu 19, 2013 7:55 pm

Wouldn't they have been able to see more under the old system since you just automatically would get on the ride (with possible exceptions for RSR and Toy Story Mania) rather than having to wait for their window?

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Amy » Sep Thu 19, 2013 7:59 pm

Wizzard419 wrote:Wouldn't they have been able to see more under the old system since you just automatically would get on the ride (with possible exceptions for RSR and Toy Story Mania) rather than having to wait for their window?
Yes, they probably would have been able to see more with the old system, but with so many people abusing the system, they had to do something. It hasn't been made clear exactly that the return time will be equal to the current standby time, only that the return time will be based on the standby time.

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Wizzard419 » Sep Thu 19, 2013 8:09 pm

"So many" might be a gross overstatement though, they actually had to do nothing outside of go after people offering the passes as a service. Anything more than that and you will end up with unhappy people and possibly a lawsuit if the people affected feel they can no longer get the same amount of rides in for their money. People had forgotten all about the services a week or two after the reports were on television,

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Amy » Sep Thu 19, 2013 10:06 pm

Wizzard419 wrote:"So many" might be a gross overstatement though, they actually had to do nothing outside of go after people offering the passes as a service. Anything more than that and you will end up with unhappy people and possibly a lawsuit if the people affected feel they can no longer get the same amount of rides in for their money. People had forgotten all about the services a week or two after the reports were on television,
Maybe, but I think there were quite a few people that were really unhappy about those services. And I think it is unrealistic to expect that you will get x-amount of rides in, whether you have someone in your party that requires special accommodations or not. I personally am not comfortable in large crowds so I plan my vacation during less busy times of the year. Do I expect that I will get on every ride that way, not necessarily, but I also plan extra days to make sure that I can see everything I want to.
I don't think there is a good answer really, which limitations should be enforced? which people get front of the line access? which people have to wait in the stand by queue? which people have to wait the same time as the stand by queue but are allowed to wait in a different area? Disney has to have some sort of policy in place and I think they are at least trying.
And I do think they should have done something to those people offering their DAC "services". I can't say I completely followed how that all turned out so I don't know if they were punished in any way. And whether they were doing anything legally wrong is different than they were definitely skirting the system for which the passes were designed. Worse in my eyes anyhow than clogging up the single rider lines with large groups.

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Wizzard419 » Sep Thu 19, 2013 10:45 pm

There is a difference between being unhappy that people like that exist and the number of people actually doing it, considering the high price-tag and needing to stay off the radar, they probably were not that common to begin with.

It might be unrealistic if you were to go between Christmas and new years and expect to get all the rides in, in a single day, but even in your planning, you expect to get on a certain number/all of the rides within your trip. Otherwise you would not have selected that many days.

Since the number of people who use the system (legit or otherwise) is a small fraction of the traditional user, and the impact of them on the wait times is minimal (or non-existent in the case of rides/shows that have designated load areas), doing nothing would have the same impact.

Disney (at least DLR) took action against people offering the services, anyone offering the service online was issued a warning (since there was no real way to verify who they are) and anyone caught offering said service would have their pass revoked and be banned from the resort. Were they breaking any laws? Nope, and taking any stance other than a reactive one to the people would possibly send them deeper into lawsuit land since handicapped is a protected population. Single rider lines are not just for the rider's benefit but for the manager and the people in the other lines, sending out full cars most of the time means you can cycle more people through per hour, which means that the wait time for people goes down, and everyone is happy. RSR for example has a visible single rider line that people go in and can get on the ride in about 30 mins vs a 90 min wait if they wanted to ride with everyone in their party. Think of riders as packing peanuts, do you care if they are green, pink, white, or cornstarch?

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Amy » Sep Fri 20, 2013 7:01 am

Wizzard419 wrote:...Disney (at least DLR) took action against people offering the services, anyone offering the service online was issued a warning (since there was no real way to verify who they are) and anyone caught offering said service would have their pass revoked and be banned from the resort. Were they breaking any laws? Nope, and taking any stance other than a reactive one to the people would possibly send them deeper into lawsuit land since handicapped is a protected population. Single rider lines are not just for the rider's benefit but for the manager and the people in the other lines, sending out full cars most of the time means you can cycle more people through per hour, which means that the wait time for people goes down, and everyone is happy. RSR for example has a visible single rider line that people go in and can get on the ride in about 30 mins vs a 90 min wait if they wanted to ride with everyone in their party. Think of riders as packing peanuts, do you care if they are green, pink, white, or cornstarch?
Glad to know DLR did take some action against those "services".
I understand the whole single rider line concept, it just is frustrating to be in the middle of a whole bunch of jabbering friends when I am a single rider and just want to get through the attraction and back to my family that isn't able to go on with me. What is amazing to me is how many ride vehicles you see dispatched with one of two empty seats when the lines are packed full. I know they have to dispatch them on time and perhaps people are just moving too slowly, but there are some inefficiencies still in place if there are empty seats.
As for packing materials, I prefer the little plastic pillows of air :P those little peanuts go everywhere :roll:

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Goofyfan » Sep Fri 20, 2013 7:15 am

My wife is in a wheelchair due to neuropothy caused by diabetes. She is unable to walk any distances. She has no feeling from her feet to her thigh. If we can get the wheel chair through the queue line, we refuse the assistance except for attractions like Toy Story Mania etc. due to the stairs. But I feel bad for the people who realy need the assistance who are not as mobil as others. :goofy:
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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Wizzard419 » Sep Fri 20, 2013 1:28 pm

Amy wrote: Glad to know DLR did take some action against those "services".
I understand the whole single rider line concept, it just is frustrating to be in the middle of a whole bunch of jabbering friends when I am a single rider and just want to get through the attraction and back to my family that isn't able to go on with me. What is amazing to me is how many ride vehicles you see dispatched with one of two empty seats when the lines are packed full. I know they have to dispatch them on time and perhaps people are just moving too slowly, but there are some inefficiencies still in place if there are empty seats.
As for packing materials, I prefer the little plastic pillows of air :P those little peanuts go everywhere :roll:

At RSR they are actually really good at keeping every car full, so it is rare to see them go out (not counting ones from the handicapped station) not totally full. The reason that you see single rider lines for attractions with powered cars was that they learned their lesson from Indy (which promotes the single rider)/Dinosaur because it costs a lot of money to send those big heavy cars through the ride and if you have a third of the space empty, then you are only hurting yourself. It also might be better for wear on the mechanism if the load is somewhat balanced. I am actually kind of surprised that Tower of Terror does not have such a line, though there is such a long lag time between seating assignment and loading.

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Amy » Sep Fri 20, 2013 7:29 pm

Wizzard419 wrote:
Amy wrote: Glad to know DLR did take some action against those "services".
I understand the whole single rider line concept, it just is frustrating to be in the middle of a whole bunch of jabbering friends when I am a single rider and just want to get through the attraction and back to my family that isn't able to go on with me. What is amazing to me is how many ride vehicles you see dispatched with one of two empty seats when the lines are packed full. I know they have to dispatch them on time and perhaps people are just moving too slowly, but there are some inefficiencies still in place if there are empty seats.
As for packing materials, I prefer the little plastic pillows of air :P those little peanuts go everywhere :roll:

At RSR they are actually really good at keeping every car full, so it is rare to see them go out (not counting ones from the handicapped station) not totally full. The reason that you see single rider lines for attractions with powered cars was that they learned their lesson from Indy (which promotes the single rider)/Dinosaur because it costs a lot of money to send those big heavy cars through the ride and if you have a third of the space empty, then you are only hurting yourself. It also might be better for wear on the mechanism if the load is somewhat balanced. I am actually kind of surprised that Tower of Terror does not have such a line, though there is such a long lag time between seating assignment and loading.
The last time we were at DL they didn't have a SR line for Indy ~ is it back?! They do sort of go through the Tower of Terror looking for singles if they are close to dispatching a car without a full load of guests. They have done the same thing at Soarin' and Space Mountain as well, but they only go back so far in their search for the elusive single rider. Sometimes I luck out and am close enough to be able to raise my hand and get to jump the line :D
I wonder if anyone has ever done a cost analysis on the cost per ride in an attraction. That would be an interesting thing to read ~ Lots of factors! If the ride vehicles themselves are that heavy, I wouldn't think the passenger load would have much impact on the wear and tear, but it might.

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Wizzard419 » Sep Fri 20, 2013 8:37 pm

It never went away, they don't have a physical line for single riders for Indy. You get a pass (if they used all the ones up and haven't brought them back to the front they may still send you back) and you walk in through the exit and you then go and get to take the elevators up/down, which allows you to walk through the scene above the tracks, and they take you there. They may have adjusted it slightly so you have to stand in the movie theater while it plays the safety message.

Because DCA's tower of terror can be empty during the slow season, I think it might be impossible to send out perfectly full cars. Soarin' at DCA has a devoted line for singles, yet it never has as many as Radiator Springs Racers, it also never has nearly the wait for the Epcot version. Many of the rides will also do a search of the immediate area for single riders but won't go very far with it.

They have done operating cost analysis, that leads to developments for launch coasters since they would cause major draws if they pulled their power directly from the grid. I recall reading, not able to verify, that the natural gas/propane cost alone for Jaws at USO (for the explosion) was several hundred dollars a boat. That actually helped usher in the closure for the ride since the operating costs were out of hand.

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Amy » Sep Fri 20, 2013 8:49 pm

Wizzard419 wrote:It never went away, they don't have a physical line for single riders for Indy. You get a pass (if they used all the ones up and haven't brought them back to the front they may still send you back) and you walk in through the exit and you then go and get to take the elevators up/down, which allows you to walk through the scene above the tracks, and they take you there. They may have adjusted it slightly so you have to stand in the movie theater while it plays the safety message.

Because DCA's tower of terror can be empty during the slow season, I think it might be impossible to send out perfectly full cars. Soarin' at DCA has a devoted line for singles, yet it never has as many as Radiator Springs Racers, it also never has nearly the wait for the Epcot version. Many of the rides will also do a search of the immediate area for single riders but won't go very far with it.

They have done operating cost analysis, that leads to developments for launch coasters since they would cause major draws if they pulled their power directly from the grid. I recall reading, not able to verify, that the natural gas/propane cost alone for Jaws at USO (for the explosion) was several hundred dollars a boat. That actually helped usher in the closure for the ride since the operating costs were out of hand.
I was told there was no single rider line, and I asked more than once, the last time we were at DL around 2005-ish ~ guess they just didn't like me :( The CMs told me that they were perplexed (probably not the exact word they used, but similar) because they knew it was a good thing to have the single riders to fill the cars.
Wow ~ that is a pretty expensive explosion on Jaws :shock: Wouldn't you think they could have brought that cost down with newer technology? I know people complain about prices at the various theme parks, but when you look at the expense of the nightly fireworks alone it is amazing the tickets don't cost more.

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Wizzard419 » Sep Fri 20, 2013 9:57 pm

No idea about that, it might have been they were out of slips or it was one of those college program people. If they aren't able to recognize they are being paid up to a third less than the regular worker and paying most of their salary back to Disney for housing, they probably aren't going to know if they have single rider programs. :D

With Jaws, there really wasn't any cost saving measure to use less gas but still have the effect. Part of the issue was that the fuel prices had gone up significantly in the last few years, which I think was also part of the reason that the burning cabin at DLR was changed. The other issue is that it was a high maintenance ride (add water and your costs go through the roof) but it was heavily dated and didn't connect with anyone under the age of 40. So throwing money at it would not be worth it, and demolition was the best solution since it was so dated that it wasn't worth upgrading (CoP, GMR, The Land, etc... I am looking at you).

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Re: Bye GAC Hello DAS

Post by Amy » Oct Thu 10, 2013 1:45 pm

There have been several posts from people who have utilized the new system since it debuted yesterday. I haven't had a chance to read through them all, but I did have the chance to see one person's experience with her grown autistic child. She posted several videos online, taped a CM without their knowledge and posted it, and generally whined and complained about everything. She hated the whole system because they were no longer whisked directly to the front of the line. She said Disney was ruined and even though they have APs they just won't be able to come anymore because of the changes. Really? If you are AP holders, and visit that frequently, can't you come and enjoy what your child and his condition will tolerate and then go home for the day? Even children (or adults) without disabilities might not be able to get around and see everything in one day.
I really think Disney is doing the best they can to assist those who need help and discourage others from abusing the system. And to say Disney is ruined on the very first day the system is rolled out? Even the CM was mentioning that they were still working on things and changes would be made as they saw how things worked in the early stages of this new system.

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