A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

In relation to Disney Parks but not specific to a single resort

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Len90
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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by Len90 » May Thu 23, 2013 5:59 pm

Great points made today about EPCOT vs Epcot and I side with sub and everyone else. Disney has completely lost touch with half of the original idea for the theme park Epcot Center. The imagineers had two ideas for the park: showcase cutting edge technology (future world), and represent world culture (World Showcase). I personally feel that in present day we will never be able to have theming in lands like Future World or Tomorrowland due to the rapid changing technology. However, we can surely try and do better than this. The attractions don't really fit in anymore. I understand the need for E tickets since it draws people, but I do think we could have designed E tickets that would better fit the theme and help represent the ideals of Epcot Center. Here is how I personally feel about everything in Future World right now.
Spaceship Earth (despite not being a full fan of the current version) is a great attraction that can show where we came from and where we are going. Unfortunately we don't do that and the descent is wasted with a pathetic futuristic video. To me it seems like a cheap way out even though those screens and the designs for the video cost money. I do hope to see another upgrade for it in the future.
Test Track: Having finally ridden the "new" version of it I can see Disney making a cheap attempt to bring in a future world theme to the attraction. However, to me it is a big failure. A lot of people were upset about losing WOM to a thrill ride and others were ecstatic to have an E ticket like that. Now it seems like Disney relaxed a bit on the thrill and is doing nothing but disappointing everyone. I personally was let down by the new version and it really now becomes something that I will even question doing. Oh and did I mention it seriously felt like Tron with the color scheme.
Mission SPACE: To me I can sum it up easily. Orange is just a thrill ride and Green is a boring replacement to Body Wars.
The Seas and EEA I think Sub beat this horse to death already and I fully agree with what was said.
The Land: I still think this is the only pavilion that has some touch with its original concept, especially living with the land. IMO Soarin' doesn't fit in. I also think it needs to be redone. California can keep their version, but in Florida they could have easily done Soarin' over the World or even made up a Florida version.
Innoventions: Train wreck.

We wonder why it is like this and I personally do think it comes down to $$$. TDO wants to show numbers and just spent money on bringing in random E tickets. I personally feel that these ideas were the cheapest when it came to cost or were projected to be the most cost effective. The mermaid ride at 120 million is by no means cheap, but it just might have been the cheapest attraction to install. Like it or not Disney is a business and they need to show profit to keep the investors happy and the RFID readers showing green (no longer can really say turnstiles moving).


Now for a completely different point. On my previous trip I personally saw a few things that troubled me with CMs. One of the worst was seeing a CM roll up his sleeves and compare tattoos with a guest. The other troubling thing was seeing CMs escort an off duty worker through the exit and right onto BTMRR. The CM was given the last row and didn't have to wait like the standby or fast pass guests.
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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by subsonic » May Thu 23, 2013 6:44 pm

Len, if you have a twitter or tumblr you should share that with @badparkshow.

And, expanding on The Land. Earlier in this conversation (argument?) I mentioned my GF liked Spaceship Earth the best only to have verified that I was incorrect and she liked Mission:SPACE. What I failed to mention is she also brought up how much she liked the Land ride. Learning where things came from AND to find out those things produced there are used/eaten in the parks (IE: The tilapia)
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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by Wizzard419 » May Thu 23, 2013 7:17 pm

It's a discussion. :D

The land... partially a lie considering that other than a few of the items most do not produce enough to supply a single establishment, that and it does not appear that any research goes on there (or at least no one is noting it when publishing). It's dated, stale, but it gives a ride to what normally would just be a warehouse. While the Soain' is not a great fit to the land it drove people into the pavilion, which is always the goal. Aside from bringing in money, things will live and die by attendance.

Always try to keep this in mind when you are unhappy with how WDW is run, you are not the core demographic and it does not matter what they do as you will gladly keep giving them your money.

As for workers comparing ink, considering tattoos are now socially acceptable and Disney strives to have worker guest interactions, that worker did a good thing by connecting to the customer on a deeper level.

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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by Len90 » May Thu 23, 2013 9:36 pm

subsonic wrote:Len, if you have a twitter or tumblr you should share that with @badparkshow.

And, expanding on The Land. Earlier in this conversation (argument?) I mentioned my GF liked Spaceship Earth the best only to have verified that I was incorrect and she liked Mission:SPACE. What I failed to mention is she also brought up how much she liked the Land ride. Learning where things came from AND to find out those things produced there are used/eaten in the parks (IE: The tilapia)
I really don't use twitter, so if you want to share it Sub you could go ahead and do it.
Wizzard419 wrote:It's a discussion. :D

The land... partially a lie considering that other than a few of the items most do not produce enough to supply a single establishment, that and it does not appear that any research goes on there (or at least no one is noting it when publishing). It's dated, stale, but it gives a ride to what normally would just be a warehouse. While the Soain' is not a great fit to the land it drove people into the pavilion, which is always the goal. Aside from bringing in money, things will live and die by attendance.

Always try to keep this in mind when you are unhappy with how WDW is run, you are not the core demographic and it does not matter what they do as you will gladly keep giving them your money.

As for workers comparing ink, considering tattoos are now socially acceptable and Disney strives to have worker guest interactions, that worker did a good thing by connecting to the customer on a deeper level.
A CM who is on stage should never be rolling up his costume to expose tattoos. I think Sub or someone who has worked/working for Disney could go into more detail as to how that is a no no. Tattoos must always be covered completely while on stage.
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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by Wizzard419 » May Thu 23, 2013 9:54 pm

Yes and rules change, Walt didn't want female animators and now they are allowed in the department and the only person with facial hair allowed to work in his parks was himself. :D

Did that individual rolling up their sleeves to show their ink ruin your day, trip, etc.? I guess if you want the individuality stripped out of the worker so that they are soulless robots, that's cool I guess. But most people would rather have at least a deeper level of connection than what they have with an ATM.

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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by Len90 » May Thu 23, 2013 10:10 pm

Wizzard419 wrote:Yes and rules change, Walt didn't want female animators and now they are allowed in the department and the only person with facial hair allowed to work in his parks was himself. :D

Did that individual rolling up their sleeves to show their ink ruin your day, trip, etc.? I guess if you want the individuality stripped out of the worker so that they are soulless robots, that's cool I guess. But most people would rather have at least a deeper level of connection than what they have with an ATM.
Rules have changed indeed and just recently facial hair was allowed. I'm not saying it ruined my day, but it could have upset somebody else. What if the ink was offensive? Remember there is a uniform and appearance for a reason.
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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by Wizzard419 » May Thu 23, 2013 10:21 pm

It's been allowed since the 90's. :D It clearly must have upset you enough to take note of it, if it was offensive he probably would not have shown it. The purpose of all uniforms is to strip the individuality out of the wearer so that they become a replaceable part. The goal being that it makes the labor cheap and if there is an issue they can be replaced with ease rather than work to remedy said behavior.

This is part of the core of the butt-hurt complex that diehards have when it comes to the parks, they want it to be 1955 and whenever there is a change to the rules (good or bad) it always stirs the pot. Look at the discussion on an establishment serving beer and wine in MK? Some said it was good some came at it like there would be drunken orgies all over the place.

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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by DisneySpin » May Thu 23, 2013 10:41 pm

Wizzard419 wrote: What I was getting at was basically the other comment was saying that they were nostalgic but didn't want to say they were nostalgic.
Nope, wrong. Nostalgia is all about sentmentality and that is why I specifically stated my disappointments were at visits that hadn't even given me time to get all warm and fuzzy about any particular attraction. I don't have the original EPCOT on a pedestal, no theme park can survive without staying current. But I will say again, one of the things I came away with after my first visit was simply the admiration of the Disney Co attempting to broaden the idea of what an amusement park could be. So whether it's attendance, $$, or any other number of reasons, it disappoints when the changes slowly dismantle the appeal just to appease the roller coaster crowd. Demographics are important, but we all know who pays for those admission tickets; most visitors I know are sorry about the changes to EPCOT.
I guess it's like NASA now - where they used to inspire us with ideas of science, technology, possibilities - pretty much kicked to the curb.
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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by Wizzard419 » May Thu 23, 2013 11:00 pm

That is where it gets confusing, you aren't nostalgic but you long for the original format? If it isn't nostalgia then it is darn close.

As you pointed out, the customers dictate the direction of the parks, and the majority are happy with what has been presented.

Also, what is with people acting like NASA doesn't do anything anymore? Is this just because the shuttle program was mothballed? They still are able to conduct research without that multi-billion dollar program and are even working with the SpaceX people.

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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by Len90 » May Thu 23, 2013 11:12 pm

Wizzard419 wrote:It's been allowed since the 90's. :D It clearly must have upset you enough to take note of it, if it was offensive he probably would not have shown it. The purpose of all uniforms is to strip the individuality out of the wearer so that they become a replaceable part. The goal being that it makes the labor cheap and if there is an issue they can be replaced with ease rather than work to remedy said behavior.

This is part of the core of the butt-hurt complex that diehards have when it comes to the parks, they want it to be 1955 and whenever there is a change to the rules (good or bad) it always stirs the pot. Look at the discussion on an establishment serving beer and wine in MK? Some said it was good some came at it like there would be drunken orgies all over the place.
Tattoos are allowed so long as they are covered and REMAIN covered. That is what the rules are now and rolling up sleeves goes against the rules. You may view the uniform like that but the main idea of the uniform was to match the area and make it as if the person was part of the place. Remember Disney calls it a costume and not a uniform. Same thing but meant to be taken in a different context.
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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by Wizzard419 » May Thu 23, 2013 11:33 pm

That is just marketing, just like how they call customer service "Guest relations". Should the worker be reprimanded or possibly fired because he showed a social connection to the guest by raising a sleeve?

The costume/uniform does strip the individuality from the worker, which makes it seamless for shift changes and personal replacement. You and your family go at least once a year, do you have a favorite server that you get every time at whatever places you frequent? You might, but probably don't simply because many of the people are seasonal.

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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by DisneySpin » May Thu 23, 2013 11:54 pm

Wizzard419 wrote:That is where it gets confusing, you aren't nostalgic but you long for the original format? If it isn't nostalgia then it is darn close.

As you pointed out, the customers dictate the direction of the parks, and the majority are happy with what has been presented.

Also, what is with people acting like NASA doesn't do anything anymore? Is this just because the shuttle program was mothballed? They still are able to conduct research without that multi-billion dollar program and are even working with the SpaceX people.
We're going to have to agree to disagree or something. You are missing my point. First, nostalgia is about being sentimental, longing for the "old days.". I am in no way "longing", I'm saying it was from the first time I experienced the changes and, just generally seeing the company change, I find it unfortunate that the willingness to provide some thought provoking entertainment is disappearing.
As to my NASA comment, well that comes from having a number of family members in the aerospace industry, from NASA to JPL. Since it's an "off topic" remark, I'll just leave it at: it is not the same organization.
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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by DisneySpin » May Fri 24, 2013 12:06 am

subsonic wrote:DisneySpin: This me clicking the "like button" on your post: *ka-click*
:lol: Now, coming from You, that's a real compliment! Can't tell you how much I "Like" all you do for Subsonic, so Thanks again.
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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by cy1229 » May Fri 24, 2013 7:40 am

Wizzard419 wrote: Also, what is with people acting like NASA doesn't do anything anymore? Is this just because the shuttle program was mothballed? They still are able to conduct research without that multi-billion dollar program and are even working with the SpaceX people.
NASA is conducting a lot of really great research, yes. But without a goal to shoot for, it's just more government-funded research. We really aren't doing anything beyond low-earth orbit and deep space observation.

What most of us are looking for is something to inspire us, something that the country can get behind and be excited about. The 1960s race to land on the moon is a good example. Without an evil foe against whom to compete for superiority, there just isn't any drive to do anything. The President canceled all space programs that were transport-related, hoping that private industry would shoulder that risk instead (yeah, right). The space program of the 1960s and 1970s didn't just give us something behind which to rally, however. It also gave us a lot of really useful technology as a beneficial side-effect. Without a push to achieve a certain goal, there is little point in doing the research, and we all know private entities aren't going to assume the financial risk without a minimal degree of ROI certainty. THAT is why people say NASA doesn't do much. Because really, they don't do much that's new.

I still am enthralled with the discoveries made at NASA, and the photographs and information coming from space-based observing satellites (like Hubble) continue to fascinate me. But I"m a science nerd, and most people are bored by yet another picture of a beautiful galaxy. There needs to be something new and interesting.

Kind of what everyone was expecting from Future World.
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Re: A site for pointing out Disney's bad show

Post by Wizzard419 » May Fri 24, 2013 12:40 pm

cy1229 wrote: The President canceled all space programs that were transport-related, hoping that private industry would shoulder that risk instead (yeah, right). The space program of the 1960s and 1970s didn't just give us something behind which to rally, however.
You mean like how SpaceX is actively working on it? Also, as much as you may want to blame Obama for it, the focus to get the shuttle program replaced with private flights has been on the agenda for over 10 years.

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