DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

In relation to Disney Parks but not specific to a single resort

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cy1229
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DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by cy1229 » Apr Tue 05, 2016 8:25 pm

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by Wizzard419 » Apr Tue 05, 2016 8:45 pm

They were never valid for resale, if I recall... the main thing being that the rule was not enforced. So, in the past, if you had purchased points for a trip you were SOL if things didn't work out.

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by cy1229 » Apr Tue 05, 2016 9:17 pm

Wizzard419 wrote:They were never valid for resale, if I recall... the main thing being that the rule was not enforced. So, in the past, if you had purchased points for a trip you were SOL if things didn't work out.
You are referring to renting points. This is referring to complete sale of ownership from a current owner.
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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by Wizzard419 » Apr Tue 05, 2016 9:19 pm

Renting points were never permitted either, unenforced, but still not permitted.

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by cy1229 » Apr Tue 05, 2016 9:32 pm

Well, people who have purchased their DVC elsewhere have received the DVC perks in the past, and those come from Disney. Stuff like annual pass discounts, etc. So it seems to me that it was permitted if not discouraged since every sale must have been approved by Disney before going through.
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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by Wizzard419 » Apr Tue 05, 2016 9:47 pm

Again, not enforced, but not permitted. If I recall, the rules still have a clause that prohibits reselling of anything. If I understand correctly, the way those vacations worked was that the seller would need to book it on their account rather than Disney transferring points from one account to another.

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by Amy » Apr Wed 06, 2016 8:27 am

Not surprising that they are finally deciding to enforce the no reselling portion of the contract. People considering buying an old contract will have to weigh whether or not the cheaper price will make up for losing the perks associated with purchasing a new contract direct from DVC. I'm still not sold on the whole concept ~ I get that you have a sort of "squatters rights" sort of thing, but it seems like you need a lot of disposable income to own any kind of time share, much less one that is very specific to where you can use it.

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by Wizzard419 » Apr Wed 06, 2016 2:18 pm

The math doesn't work out for most people considering you still have to buy park tickets (which would also continue to rise) and food, plus you still have to actually get there. Pretty much you are just buying a spot in a hotel room. If you took the money you would have spent on DVC, placed it in something like a CD or Bond (or a fund if you want to gamble a little more) you would come out ahead financially as your money would actually be able to grow, and you would also have the freedom of choice.

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by momeja » Apr Thu 07, 2016 8:55 am

Perks were absolutely permitted for resale contracts. Originally, all contracts were treated the same - new and resale. In 2011, Disney restricted resale contracts to DVC properties only. Points could no longer be used for DLP, Disneycruise line, etc., but you still had access to the basic membership perks. As of April 4, that will no longer be true for new contracts. This is a change from the past. Old contracts are grandfathered in. Only new contracts are affected.

We bought our first contract when my mother died. She left us some money, which we used for DVC, since my children's memories of their grandmother were of the happy times we spent visiting her in the summer. I wanted her legacy for them to be a memory of vacationing together as a family. We've since used money to buy 2 more small contracts to pass down to the kids. I don't regret the purchase, although Wizzard is probably right from a strict financial standpoint, if that's your goal. Our goal was using the money for family and memories. No regrets at all.

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by theBIGyowski » Apr Mon 11, 2016 8:53 am

The only real perk or discount that new DVC resale owners will miss out on is the AP and AP renewal. Other than that, I believe all other discounts are already available to AP holders or Disney Visa cardholders. So, at most you are only saving $100 per person...per year. Everyone knows booking DCL via your DVC points is a horrible idea compared to paying cash...so that perk doesn't matter either.

Disney could decide to no longer allow renting of DVC points, but it would cause serious backlash from both DVC owners as well as potential renters. When people rent points for their stay, everyone wins. The person renting wins because they save hundreds to thousands of dollars...and for a lot of people it is the only way they can afford a trip to WDW. The owners win because they are able to get money back for some of their unused points. They aren't in it to make a profit, but being able to cut their losses makes their DVC ownership worth the huge upfront cost (something many owners said Disney mentioned in the sales process).

Finally, Disney wins because first off...they already made their money when the DVC contract was sold/purchased. Disney also gets the annual dues each year...regardless of who is staying there. Disney will also make more money from guests who are renting versus what they would make off of the owner and here is why. First, most people who rent DVC do not have an AP. That means they will more than likely be paying full price for their park tickets. These same people will more than likely be paying for their meals out of pocket and without any kind of discount...making Disney more money. Also, renting guests are going to be more likely to buy merchandise than a DVC owner because this may be the first time this guest is staying at this particular resort. So, you can see how a renting guest will spend more money over the course of the vacation than the DVC owner...and remember that Disney already has all of the upfront money from the DVC owner.

So there's my little soapbox on why I think Disney will continue to allow renting of DVC. Of course this doesn't include owners booking stays for their friends and family either...something else Disney has used as part of the DVC sales pitch.
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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by Wizzard419 » Apr Mon 11, 2016 2:05 pm

But Disney doesn't win, they end up having to offer up services to people who are not paying them to be part of a program. If someone doesn't use their points up (presuming they expire) and is unable to offload them onto someone else, then Disney wins since they got paid and didn't have to do anything.

If Disney got a cut or was able to enact a fiscal penalty for non-members using their services, then they would win. Right now, they are losing.

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by theBIGyowski » Apr Mon 11, 2016 2:35 pm

But Disney does win...because they got their money already. It's not like the DVC owner doesn't pay dues if they rent their points out.

My points clearly showed how Disney makes more money off of the renting guest than the owner probably 90+% of the time. The only times Disney makes more money off of the DVC owner is if they purchase the AP and only use it for a single trip...thus Disney making more off of the AP than the renting guest buying MYW tickets.

Really and truly...the only people that somewhat lose out are the DVC owners because they paid a very steep premium to stay at their home resort and they won't make back enough in rentals to justify the expense. Would Disney love to make DVC exclusive to DVC owners? Yes. But they won't really ever do it because they end up making more money overall by leaving it the way it is today. Another unmentioned perk to renting is that it's advertising for DVC itself. I know quite a few folks who rented for several years before finally taking the plunge and becoming members themselves. It's an easy sales pitch when you get a taste of DVC living.
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1986: Offsite
1997: Offsite
2001: Coronado Springs
2008: Shades of Green / Saratoga Springs (WDW Half Marathon)
2009: Port Orleans French Quarter (WDW Half Marathon)
2010: Port Orleans Riverside (Honeymoon)
2011: Old Key West / Bay Lake Tower
2014: Kidani Village
2015: Old Key West (5th Wedding Anniversary)
2016: Old Key West (Kids' first WDW vacation in December!)

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by Wizzard419 » Apr Mon 11, 2016 2:44 pm

Yes, they still get the baseline, but when you rent out points that means those renters are not paying Disney for the vacation. They buy things, sure, but that hotel room is a huge chunk of revenue for them.

To break it down, DVC member pays dues/fees (Disney gets paid), member doesn't use points that year (Disney is out ahead since they now do not need to spend resources on the stay), non DVC family books vacation and doesn't rent points (Disney gets paid again). If they rent then Disney loses out on a payday.

I would imagine hearing the same thing the Yankees are trying right now, to counteract resale. Supposedly, season ticket holders are unhappy when they hear someone got into a game for next to nothing (the example being a mid-week afternoon game) while they paid full price.

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by theBIGyowski » Apr Tue 12, 2016 7:45 am

What you listed is just a part of doing business and it's everywhere. The reason DVC is different is that the money is already realized. Disney doesn't lose anything when points are used because they are already planning on those points being used. it would be very different if the resorts were half empty, but they are almost always at capacity on the DVC side. Try finding an opening at a DVC resort in April or May and it's extremely hard. You could drive down to WDW right now and find a cash room at a regular Disney resort though. So, while there is more demand than supply on the DVC side, there is no lost revenue when someone rents points.

I am a great example of the kind of person who cannot afford a trip to WDW if we can't rent DVC points. There are many people just like me. If we can't rent points, we don't spend the other $1,500-$3,000 at WDW. That is real money that Disney misses out on just because we can't rent points to stay at a resort. Disney's main goal is to get you on property and keep you there. That's why you see things like free dining and room-only discounts. They know if they can get you there, they will be able to convince you to spend more money while you are there. They would rather you rent DVC and be on property than to stay at a hotel or resort off-property. You are guaranteed to spend hundreds if not thousands more if you are staying in a Disney resort when it comes to merchandise, dining, and hard ticket events. Guests who take part in morning EMH are more likely to buy breakfast inside the park...a nice profitable result for Disney letting resort guests in early.

I'm rambling now...but my main point is that Disney knows they make more money by allowing DVC owners to rent some of their points to non-DVC owners. For that reason, they will continue to allow it. Otherwise, DVC ownership becomes something that is more of a liability than an asset to potential owners. Disney doesn't want that...they want people to feel very comfortable and confident about paying $25,000 upfront and knowing that worst case scenario, they can rent their unused points or book a trip for a friend or family member.
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1986: Offsite
1997: Offsite
2001: Coronado Springs
2008: Shades of Green / Saratoga Springs (WDW Half Marathon)
2009: Port Orleans French Quarter (WDW Half Marathon)
2010: Port Orleans Riverside (Honeymoon)
2011: Old Key West / Bay Lake Tower
2014: Kidani Village
2015: Old Key West (5th Wedding Anniversary)
2016: Old Key West (Kids' first WDW vacation in December!)

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Re: DVC Perks No Longer Valid for Resale

Post by Wizzard419 » Apr Tue 12, 2016 2:37 pm

But what I said was, Disney gains when points are not used (there is a difference). The resources are allocated, but not purchased/spent, which means they are getting paid without having to pay out. When their labor resources are hourly, those little savings can add up.

And again, there is lost revenue when someone rents, if they were going to WDW, that means they are going to need to get accommodations. As I pointed out before, renting the points means Disney gets paid once, if the guest doesn't rent and the points go unused, Disney gets paid twice.

The reason they offer those promotions is partially for the incentive to get you to stay in their hotels, but the real reason is that they simply make more money by charging your full price (or higher than normal) during the off season rather than lowering the price of the room. Food is cheap, if I can charge you an extra $200 a night and give you $10 a day worth of food, I'll do it.

Bottom line is, they leave money on the table, letting people treat DVC like AirBnB will likely come to an end or they will start demanding a cut. It was never considered to be an asset as you are buying a timeshare not a piece of real estate. Considering they never actually permitted it (and even note how you are SOL if things go tits up), their response will likely be that it was never permitted in the first place. They are a business, as such they are not huge fans of people reselling their tickets and vacations.

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